In The Matter Of: United States vs. PFC Bradley E. Manning Vol. 29 August 6, 2013 UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation Min-U-Script(R) with Word Index UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 1 1 VOLUME XXIX 2 IN THE UNITED STATES ARMY 3 4 UNITED STATES 5 VS. 6 MANNING, Bradley E., Pfc. 7 U.S. Army, xxx-xx-9504 8 Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 9 U.S. Army Garrison, 10 Joint Base Myer-Henderson Hall, 11 Fort Myer, VA 12 COURT-MARTIAL _______________________________________/ 22211 13 14 15 The Hearing in the above-titled matter was 16 continued on Tuesday, August 6, 2013, at 2:00 p.m., at 17 Fort Meade, Maryland, before the Honorable Colonel 18 Denise Lind, Judge. 19 20 21 Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 2 1 DISCLAIMER 2 This transcript was made by a court 3 reporter who is not the official Government reporter, 4 was not permitted to be in the actual courtroom where 5 the proceedings took place, but in a media room 6 listening to and watching live audio/video feed, not 7 permitted to make an audio backup recording for editing 8 purposes, and not having the ability to control the 9 proceedings in order to produce an accurate verbatim 10 transcript. 11 12 This unedited, uncertified draft transcript 13 may contain court reporting outlines that are not 14 translated, notes made by the reporter for editing 15 purposes, misspelled terms and names, word combinations 16 that do not make sense, and missing testimony or 17 colloquy due to being inaudible by the reporter. 18 19 20 21 Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 3 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 ON BEHALF OF GOVERNMENT: 4 MAJOR ASHDEN FEIN 5 CAPTAIN JOSEPH MORROW 6 CAPTAIN ALEXANDER van ELLEN 7 8 9 ON BEHALF OF ACCUSED: DAVID COOMBS 10 CAPTAIN JOSHUA TOOMAN 11 MAJOR THOMAS HURLEY 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 4 1 INDEX 2 August 6th, 2013 3 4 WITNESS: COLONEL JULIAN CHESNUTT 5 Examination By: 6 Mr. Morrow Page 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 5 1 PROCEEDINGS, 2 THE CLERK: All rise. 3 THE COURT: Please be seated. 4 called to order. 5 The court is Major Fein? MR. FEIN: Yes, ma'am. All parties in the 6 court in the last recess are again present except 7 Captain Overgaard is absent. 8 9 Also, ma'am, this is an unclassified session and prior to its opening the court security 10 officer completed his open hearing checklist for this 11 trial on paper. 12 13 THE COURT: Is there anything we need to address before we call the witness? 14 MR. FEIN: No, ma'am. 15 MR. HURLEY: 16 THE COURT: 17 MR. MORROW: No, ma'am. Please call the witness. The United States calls 18 Colonel Julian Chesnutt. Sir, if you could, approach 19 the witness stand and just turn and face me and raise 20 your right hand. 21 Whereupon, Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 6 1 COLONEL JULIAN CHESNUTT, 2 called as a witness, having been first duly sworn to tell 3 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 4 was examined and testified as follows: 5 MR. MORROW: 6 EXAMINATION BY MR. MORROW: 7 8 Q Please have a seat, sir. Sir, you are Colonel Julian Chesnutt, United States Air force? 9 A Yes. 10 Q And you are currently the senior defense 11 official and the defense attache to Israel? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Sir, where are you currently physically 14 located? Do you work out of Israel? 15 A Televiv. 16 Q And how long have you been in that 17 position? 18 A Approximately one year. 19 Q And, sir, generally, what are your 20 responsibilities as the senior defense official and the 21 defense attache to Israel? Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 7 1 2 3 4 5 A the U.S. ambassador. Q 8 9 And do you supervise personnel in that position? A 6 7 Primarily duty is the military advisor to Approximately 30 personnel. THE COURT: I'm going to ask you, if you would, sir, please speak up just a little bit. Q You say you supervise approximately 30 personnel? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And who are the people you supervise? 12 A I have attaches from every service, 13 operations, NCOs from every services and locally 14 engaged staff Israels and several GS civilians. 15 Q Sir, can you describe, generally, the 16 oversight relationship between your service and the 17 United States Air Force, the Department of Defense and 18 the Department of State, how that sort of works 19 together? 20 21 A Right. I'm still, obviously, an Air Force officer on loan to -- administratively to Defense Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 8 1 Intelligence Agency who, in turn, staffs us out to 2 State Department run U.S. embassies. 3 4 Q And, sir, as the defense attache, are you part of the country team? 5 A Yes, I am. 6 Q Prior to your assignment as a senior 7 defense official and defense attache to Israel, where 8 were you assigned? 9 A To Islamabad, Pakistan. 10 Q And where were you working in Islamabad? 11 A I was working in the U.S. Embassy there as 12 the defense attache. 13 14 Q And were you the senior defense attache to Pakistan? 15 A Yes, I was. 16 Q And how long were you in that position, 18 A Two years. 19 Q And can you give me sort of an approximate 17 20 21 sir? start date and an approximate end date? A Mid November 2010 until October 2012. Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 9 1 2 3 4 5 Q Sir, as the senior defense attache in Pakistan, did you work under the ODRP? A I worked alongside with ODRP, but we had a separate reporting chain. Q Sir, generally, what were your 6 responsibilities in that position, sort of the same as 7 what you're doing now? 8 9 10 11 A Also, as a military advisor to the U.S. ambassador. Q And can you describe -- do you have, like, representational duties and that sort of thing as well? 12 Can you describe that for the Court, 13 please? 14 A Yes, I'm -- I represent the Department of 15 Defense to the host nation military and then each of my 16 service attaches, whether Air Force, Navy, Army, 17 represent their specific service to the host nations, 18 Air Force, Army, Navy as the case may be. 19 Q Sir, are you here today to discuss impacted 20 defense attach operations you observed as a result of 21 disclosure of Department of State information? Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 10 1 A Yes, I am. 2 Q All right, sir. Before you sort of dive 3 more deeply into your time in Islamabad, I'd like to 4 briefly discuss your career progression. 5 6 How long have you served as an officer in the U.S. Air Force? 7 A 24 years. 8 Q And what was your military area of 9 specialty before becoming a defense attache? 10 A Pilot. 11 Q And have you held any command positions in 12 the Air Force? 13 14 Specifically A10 and F16 pilot. A Yes, several flight commands and squattering command and deputy group command. 15 Q And have you deployed during your career? 16 A Yes, I have. 17 Q To where, sir? 18 A To Iraq, to Korea, twice to turkey, to Cape 19 Verde, Panama, to Romania and -- those are my primary 20 ones. 21 Q And, sir, now do you -- can you describe Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 11 1 for the Court how you made the transition from sort of 2 a pilot career track to the defense attache service? 3 A I was serving one year as an instructor at 4 Georgetown University as a national defense fellow and 5 I was working for -- supervised by a former U.S. 6 ambassador who recommended that career path. 7 8 9 Q And can you describe the training you received as a defense attache? A Approximately six months of attache 10 training followed by six months of Urdu language 11 training, which is the national language of Pakistan, 12 and approximately six months of flight training to fly 13 the C12 aircraft which is located in Pakistan. 14 Q So you had additional flight duties as well 15 as your sort of duties as a defense attache in 16 Pakistan? 17 A Yes, I did. 18 Q And, sir, approximately how long from sort 19 of start to finish was the defense attache training? 20 A 18 months. 21 Q And, sir, how does the defense attache Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 12 1 training prepare you for particular countries 2 assignments? 3 A The attache school itself is general. It 4 trains attaches for every country, U.S. attaches for 5 every country, and then you have a phase approximately 6 one month where you meet with experts in the U.S. 7 Government on your host nation in the country you go 8 to. 9 Then, in addition to that, you normally 10 receive a language training and that can be anywhere 11 from three months to a year. 12 13 Q working in Pakistan versus some other country? 14 15 And, sir, how are you -- how did you end up How did that work? A I was -- I volunteered to go. Then my 16 service -- the Air Force nominated me and a joint 17 decision through DIA and the Air Force and the joint 18 staff and vetting by the ambassador to take the 19 position. 20 21 Q Sir, did you have any experience in that region prior to your position as the defense attache Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 13 1 there? 2 A No, my first assignment. 3 Q And what about your experience with 4 5 6 7 bilateral military relationships? A I had conducted several combined exercises primarily with NATO allies throughout my career. Q All right. So let's talk about some of 8 your responsibilities while assigned to Islamabad, the 9 U.S. embassy in Islamabad. 10 What were the primary sort of missions you 11 were promoting while assigned as a defense attache 12 there? What were you trying to do? 13 14 15 What was the mission of the attache offices? A We coordinated engagement, exercises and 16 defense cooperation with the host nation military. 17 also represented our service components to the host 18 nation military and we gave advice to other members of 19 the country team and other members of ODRP about how we 20 best thought we could assist the Pakistanis in 21 conducting counter-urgency operations to assist our Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation We UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 14 1 2 efforts in Afghanistan. Q Sir, while serving as the defense attache 3 to Pakistan, do you recall becoming aware of the 4 release of State Department information in the November 5 of 2010 timeframe, so shortly after you got there? 6 A Yes. 7 Q And, generally, how did you first become 8 aware that this was something that was going on? 9 A Through the open press. 10 Q Are you talking about the open press in 11 12 13 14 Pakistan? A In Pakistan and through U.S. outlets in Pakistan. MR. MORROW: Your Honor, as this time, we 15 would move to a closed session, but if Defense wants an 16 opportunity to cross... 17 MR. HURLEY: 18 19 We don't have any open session cross-examination questions. THE COURT: All right. Well, is there any 20 reason we need to have another open session before the 21 end of the day? I will have my ruling with respect to Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 15 1 yesterday's witness. However, I can give it to the 2 parties and just read it on the record following the 3 next morning if that's preferable. 4 MR. MORROW: 5 THE COURT: 6 Tomorrow is fine, Your Honor. What time would you like us to start? 7 MR. MORROW: We'll start at 10:00. 8 MR. HURLEY: Can I have a second? 9 THE COURT: Yes, please. 10 MR. HURLEY: 11 THE COURT: 10:00 is fine, ma'am. All right. Members of the 12 gallery, we are going to move into closed session based 13 upon my findings in Appellate Exhibit -- 14 MR. FEIN: 15 550, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay, Appellate Exhibit 550. 16 That would be the conclusion of the open proceedings 17 today. 18 said earlier, I have a ruling ready to go for the 19 witness that testified yesterday. 20 parties that ruling in advance today and we'll read it 21 on the record tomorrow. We will be starting at 10:00 tomorrow. As I I will give the Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT - 8/6/13 Afternoon Session 16 1 2 Is there anything else we need to address before we recess for the closed session? 3 MR. MORROW: No, ma'am. 4 MR. HURLEY: No, ma'am. 5 THE COURT: Mr. Chesnutt, during the 6 recess, please don't discuss your testimony with 7 anyone. As soon as we recess you're free to step out. 8 THE WITNESS: 9 THE COURT: 10 Yes, ma'am. Court is in recess. (The Trial was adjourned at 2:15 p.m.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation United States vs. PFC Bradley E. Manning A A10 (1) 10:10 ability (1) 2:8 above-titled (1) 1:15 absent (1) 5:7 accurate (1) 2:9 ACCUSED (1) 3:8 actual (1) 2:4 addition (1) 12:9 additional (1) 11:14 address (2) 5:13;16:1 adjourned (1) 16:10 administratively (1) 7:21 advance (1) 15:20 advice (1) 13:18 advisor (2) 7:1;9:8 Afghanistan (1) 14:1 again (1) 5:6 Agency (1) 8:1 Air (9) 6:8;7:17,20;9:16,18;10:6, 12;12:16,17 aircraft (1) 11:13 ALEXANDER (1) 3:6 allies (1) 13:6 alongside (1) 9:3 ambassador (4) 7:2;9:9;11:6;12:18 APPEARANCES (1) 3:1 Appellate (2) 15:13,15 approach (1) 5:18 approximate (2) 8:19,20 Approximately (7) 6:18;7:5,8;11:9,12,18; 12:5 Min-U-Script(R) UNOFFICIAL DRAFT 8/6/13 Afternoon Session area (1) 10:8 ARMY (5) 1:2,7,9;9:16,18 ASHDEN (1) 3:4 assigned (3) 8:8;13:8,11 assignment (2) 8:6;13:2 assignments (1) 12:2 assist (2) 13:20,21 attach (1) 9:20 attache (19) 6:11,21;8:3,7,12,13;9:1; 10:9;11:2,8,9,15,19,21; 12:3,21;13:11,13;14:2 attaches (4) 7:12;9:16;12:4,4 audio (1) 2:7 audio/video (1) 2:6 August (2) 1:16;4:2 aware (2) 14:3,8 B backup (1) 2:7 Base (1) 1:10 based (1) 15:12 become (1) 14:7 becoming (2) 10:9;14:3 BEHALF (2) 3:3,8 best (1) 13:20 bilateral (1) 13:4 bit (1) 7:7 Bradley (1) 1:6 briefly (1) 10:4 C C12 (1) 11:13 call (2) 5:13,16 called (2) 5:4;6:2 calls (1) 5:17 can (9) 7:15;8:19;9:10,12;10:21; 11:7;12:10;15:1,8 Cape (1) 10:18 CAPTAIN (4) 3:5,6,10;5:7 career (5) 10:4,15;11:2,6;13:6 case (1) 9:18 chain (1) 9:4 checklist (1) 5:10 CHESNUTT (5) 4:4;5:18;6:1,7;16:5 civilians (1) 7:14 CLERK (1) 5:2 closed (3) 14:15;15:12;16:2 colloquy (1) 2:17 Colonel (5) 1:17;4:4;5:18;6:1,7 combinations (1) 2:15 combined (1) 13:5 command (3) 10:11,14,14 commands (1) 10:13 Company (1) 1:8 completed (1) 5:10 components (1) 13:17 conclusion (1) 15:16 conducted (1) 13:5 conducting (1) 13:21 contain (1) 2:13 continued (1) 1:16 control (1) 2:8 COOMBS (1) 3:9 cooperation (1) 13:16 coordinated (1) 13:15 counter-urgency (1) Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation - Vol. 29 August 6, 2013 13:21 countries (1) 12:1 country (6) 8:4;12:4,5,7,13;13:19 court (19) 2:2,13;5:3,3,6,9,12,16; 7:6;9:12;11:1;14:19;15:5,9, 11,15;16:5,9,9 COURT-MARTIAL (1) 1:6 courtroom (1) 2:4 cross (1) 14:16 cross-examination (1) 14:18 currently (2) 6:10,13 D date (2) 8:20,20 DAVID (1) 3:9 day (1) 14:21 decision (1) 12:17 deeply (1) 10:3 defense (26) 6:10,11,20,21;7:17,21; 8:3,7,7,12,13;9:1,15,20; 10:9;11:2,4,8,15,19,21; 12:21;13:11,16;14:2,15 Denise (1) 1:18 Department (6) 7:17,18;8:2;9:14,21;14:4 deployed (1) 10:15 deputy (1) 10:14 describe (5) 7:15;9:10,12;10:21;11:7 DIA (1) 12:17 DISCLAIMER (1) 2:1 disclosure (1) 9:21 discuss (3) 9:19;10:4;16:6 dive (1) 10:2 draft (1) 2:12 due (1) 2:17 duly (1) 6:2 (17) A10 - duly UNOFFICIAL DRAFT 8/6/13 Afternoon Session United States vs. PFC Bradley E. Manning during (2) 10:15;16:5 duties (3) 9:11;11:14,15 duty (1) 7:1 E earlier (1) 15:18 editing (2) 2:7,14 efforts (1) 14:1 ELLEN (1) 3:6 else (1) 16:1 embassies (1) 8:2 Embassy (2) 8:11;13:9 end (3) 8:20;12:12;14:21 engaged (1) 7:14 engagement (1) 13:15 Examination (2) 4:5;6:6 examined (1) 6:4 except (1) 5:6 exercises (2) 13:5,15 Exhibit (2) 15:13,15 experience (2) 12:20;13:3 experts (1) 12:6 F F16 (1) 10:10 face (1) 5:19 feed (1) 2:6 FEIN (5) 3:4;5:4,5,14;15:14 fellow (1) 11:4 findings (1) 15:13 fine (2) 15:4,10 finish (1) 11:19 first (3) Min-U-Script(R) 6:2;13:2;14:7 flight (3) 10:13;11:12,14 fly (1) 11:12 followed (1) 11:10 following (1) 15:2 follows (1) 6:4 force (9) 6:8;7:17,20;9:16,18;10:6, 12;12:16,17 former (1) 11:5 Fort (2) 1:11,17 free (1) 16:7 G gallery (1) 15:12 Garrison (1) 1:9 gave (1) 13:18 general (1) 12:3 generally (4) 6:19;7:15;9:5;14:7 Georgetown (1) 11:4 Government (3) 2:3;3:3;12:7 group (1) 10:14 GS (1) 7:14 H Hall (1) 1:10 hand (1) 5:20 Headquarters (2) 1:8,8 Hearing (2) 1:15;5:10 held (1) 10:11 Honor (3) 14:14;15:4,14 Honorable (1) 1:17 host (5) 9:15,17;12:7;13:16,17 HURLEY (6) 3:11;5:15;14:17;15:8,10; 16:4 - Vol. 29 August 6, 2013 I impacted (1) 9:19 inaudible (1) 2:17 INDEX (1) 4:1 information (2) 9:21;14:4 instructor (1) 11:3 Intelligence (1) 8:1 into (2) 10:3;15:12 Iraq (1) 10:18 Islamabad (5) 8:9,10;10:3;13:8,9 Israel (4) 6:11,14,21;8:7 Israels (1) 7:14 J Joint (3) 1:10;12:16,17 JOSEPH (1) 3:5 JOSHUA (1) 3:10 Judge (1) 1:18 JULIAN (4) 4:4;5:18;6:1,7 K Korea (1) 10:18 L language (3) 11:10,11;12:10 last (1) 5:6 Lind (1) 1:18 listening (1) 2:6 little (1) 7:7 live (1) 2:6 loan (1) 7:21 locally (1) 7:13 located (2) Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation 6:14;11:13 long (4) 6:16;8:16;10:5;11:18 M ma'am (8) 5:5,8,14,15;15:10;16:3,4, 8 MAJOR (3) 3:4,11;5:4 MANNING (1) 1:6 Maryland (1) 1:17 matter (1) 1:15 may (2) 2:13;9:18 Meade (1) 1:17 media (1) 2:5 meet (1) 12:6 members (3) 13:18,19;15:11 Mid (1) 8:21 military (7) 7:1;9:8,15;10:8;13:4,16, 18 missing (1) 2:16 mission (1) 13:13 missions (1) 13:10 misspelled (1) 2:15 month (1) 12:6 months (5) 11:9,10,12,20;12:11 more (1) 10:3 morning (1) 15:3 MORROW (9) 3:5;4:6;5:17;6:5,6;14:14; 15:4,7;16:3 move (2) 14:15;15:12 Myer (1) 1:11 Myer-Henderson (1) 1:10 N names (1) 2:15 nation (4) (18) during - nation UNOFFICIAL DRAFT 8/6/13 Afternoon Session United States vs. PFC Bradley E. 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Manning staff (2) 7:14;12:18 staffs (1) 8:1 stand (1) 5:19 start (4) 8:20;11:19;15:6,7 starting (1) 15:17 State (4) 7:18;8:2;9:21;14:4 STATES (5) 1:2,4;5:17;6:8;7:17 step (1) 16:7 still (1) 7:20 supervise (3) 7:3,8,11 supervised (1) 11:5 sworn (1) 6:2 T talk (1) 13:7 talking (1) 14:10 team (2) 8:4;13:19 Televiv (1) 6:15 terms (1) 2:15 testified (2) 6:4;15:19 testimony (2) 2:16;16:6 THOMAS (1) 3:11 thought (1) 13:20 three (1) 12:11 throughout (1) 13:6 timeframe (1) 14:5 today (3) 9:19;15:17,20 together (1) 7:19 Tomorrow (3) 15:4,17,21 took (1) 2:5 TOOMAN (1) 3:10 track (1) 11:2 Min-U-Script(R) training (7) 11:7,10,11,12,19;12:1,10 trains (1) 12:4 transcript (3) 2:2,10,12 transition (1) 11:1 translated (1) 2:14 trial (2) 5:11;16:10 truth (3) 6:3,3,3 trying (1) 13:12 Tuesday (1) 1:16 turkey (1) 10:18 turn (2) 5:19;8:1 twice (1) 10:18 Two (1) 8:18 U uncertified (1) 2:12 unclassified (1) 5:8 under (1) 9:2 unedited (1) 2:12 UNITED (5) 1:2,4;5:17;6:8;7:17 University (1) 11:4 up (2) 7:7;12:12 upon (1) 15:13 Urdu (1) 11:10 1:1 volunteered (1) 12:15 VS (1) 1:5 W wants (1) 14:15 watching (1) 2:6 Whereupon (1) 5:21 whole (1) 6:3 WITNESS (8) 4:4;5:13,16,19;6:2;15:1, 19;16:8 word (1) 2:15 work (3) 6:14;9:2;12:14 worked (1) 9:3 working (4) 8:10,11;11:5;12:13 works (1) 7:18 2012 (1) 8:21 2013 (2) 1:16;4:2 22211 (1) 1:11 24 (1) 10:7 3 30 (2) 7:5,8 5 550 (2) 15:14,15 6 6 (2) 1:16;4:6 6th (1) 4:2 X XXIX (1) 1:1 xxx-xx-9504 (1) 1:7 Y year (3) 6:18;11:3;12:11 years (2) 8:18;10:7 yesterday (1) 15:19 yesterday's (1) 15:1 V VA (1) 1:11 van (1) 3:6 verbatim (1) 2:9 Verde (1) 10:19 versus (1) 12:13 vetting (1) 12:18 VOLUME (1) - Vol. 29 August 6, 2013 1 10:00 (3) 15:7,10,17 18 (1) 11:20 2 2:00 (1) 1:16 2:15 (1) 16:10 2010 (2) 8:21;14:5 Provided by Freedom of the Press Foundation (20) staff - 6th